Curse

DarkNecrid · May 02, 2008, 02:07 PM // 14:07

One of these is for fun (and still OWNS), the other is for mass killing everything. Hard.

Team Build #1 - Summoners (assuming you have r10 in all titles shown)
[build prof=Me/A name="Ebon Vanguard Summoner #1" Fast=12+4 Ins=6 Deadly=11][Channeling][Signet of Recall][Ebon Battle Standard of Courage][Arcane Mimicry][Arcane Echo][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Assassins Promise][Ebon Escape][/build]
[build prof=Me/A name="Ebon Vanguard Summoner #2" Fast=12+4 Ins=6 Deadly=11][Channeling][Signet of Recall][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor][Arcane Mimicry][Arcane Echo][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Assassins Promise][Ebon Escape][/build]
[build prof=N/Me name="Ebon Vanguard Necromancer" Sou=12+4 Curses=12+1][Barbs][Enfeebling Blood][Weaken Armor][Arcane Echo][Echo][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom][Ebon Escape][/build]
[build prof=Me/A name="Asuran Offensive Summoner #1" Fast=12+4 Ins=6 Deadly=11][Channeling][Signet of Recall][Summon Naga Shaman][Arcane Mimicry][Arcane Echo][Assassins Promise][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Ebon Escape][/build]
[build prof=Me/A name="Asuran Offensive Summoner #2" Fast=12+4 Ins=6 Deadly=11][Channeling][Signet of Recall][Summon Naga Shaman][Arcane Mimicry][Arcane Echo][Assassins Promise][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Ebon Escape][/build]
[build prof=Me/A name="Asuran Support Summoner #1" Fast=12+4 Ins=6 Deadly=11][Channeling][Signet of Recall][Summon Naga Shaman][Arcane Mimicry][Arcane Echo][Assassins Promise][Technobabble][Pain Inverter][/build]
[build prof=D/Me name="Dervish Healer #1" Mys=12 Win=12][Summon Naga Shaman][Faithful Intervention][Watchful Intervention][Mindbender][Arcane Echo][Mystic Healing][Dwaynas Touch][Arcane Zeal][/build]
[build prof=D/Me name="Dervish Healer #2" Mys=12 Win=12][Faithful Intervention][Watchful Intervention][Arcane Echo][Mystic Healing][Dwaynas Touch][Arcane Zeal][Mindbender][Light of Deldrimor][/build]
This team, when used correctly has:
*19 summoned allies, all level 20.
*+24AL for everyone
*+damage for your minions
*more than a 50% chance to half cast time all spells, giving your healers AAMAZING healing ability with Mindbender.
*Light of Deldrimor can be replaced with Lightbringer's Gaze/any other skill if needed.
*A way to mass summon out the ass. YEAH. You're going to want to get your max energy up on the mesmers, while keeping a good balance of HP.

Usage:
*Players will need to realize how much is needed. You will not need to blow Arcane Mimicry every fight, nor will you need to summon all your assassins. Summon only what is needed to win, to lessen down time. Gauge your foes!
*Me/A's: 1-2-3, if small encounter: Arcane Echo - Summon Sin - AP an almost dead foe, repeat. If big encounter: arcane mimicry the necro, echo chain summon sin, AP an almost dead foe, repeat. Ebon Escape to stay alive.
*N/Me: 1-2-3, Echo Chain. Don't need AP, because of SR.
*Me/A: Asurans: same as Me/A's, just with summons you can use before a battle as 3.
*D/Me: 1-2-3-4-6-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4, etc. Use 5 for big single heals.

Team Build #2: wtf pwn everything (assume r10)
[build prof=Ri/W name="Offense War #1" Spa=12+4 Ham=12][Spirits Strength][Great Dwarf Weapon][Dodge This][For Great Justice][Flurry][Mokele Smash][Save Yourselves][Sight Beyond Sight][/build]
[build prof=Ri/W name="Offense War #2" Spa=12+4 Ham=12][Spirits Strength][Great Dwarf Weapon][Dodge This][For Great Justice][Flurry][Mokele Smash][Save Yourselves][Sight Beyond Sight][/build]
[build prof=P/Ri name="Offense Para #2" Lea=12+4 Spe=12+3][Cruel Spear][Great Dwarf Weapon][Theres Nothing to Fear][Spear of Fury][Aggressive Refrain][Anthem of Flame][Spear of Lightning][Sight Beyond Sight][/build]
[build prof=P/Ri name="Offense Para #1" Lea=12+4 Spe=12+3][Cruel Spear][Great Dwarf Weapon][Theres Nothing to Fear][Spear of Fury][Aggressive Refrain][Anthem of Flame][Spear of Lightning][Sight Beyond Sight][/build]
[build prof=D/Ne name="Healer 1" Mys=10+3 Win=11+4 Blo=10][Faithful Intervention][Watchful Intervention][Mindbender][Arcane Zeal][Mystic Healing][Dwaynas Touch][Order of Pain][optional][/build]
[build prof=D/Ne name="Healer 2" Mys=12+3 Win=11+4 Blo=6][Faithful Intervention][Watchful Intervention][Mindbender][Arcane Zeal][Mystic Healing][Dwaynas Touch][Dark Fury][optional][/build]
[build prof=D/Ne name="Healer 3" Mys=12+4 Win=12+3][Faithful Intervention][Watchful Intervention][Mindbender][Arcane Zeal][Mystic Healing][Dwaynas Touch][Breath of the Great Dwarf][optional][/build]
[build prof=D/Ne name="Healer 4" Mys=12+3 Win=12+4][Faithful Intervention][Watchful Intervention][Mindbender][Arcane Zeal][Mystic Healing][Dwaynas Touch][Breath of the Great Dwarf][optional][/build]
This team, when used correctly has:
*invincibility, endless adrenaline, and you will never die. ever. even if you get hexed/conditioned NO ONE CARES.
*if it isn't obvious, feel free to change out the two guys with Breath of the Great Dwarf with monks/paras/wars/whatever. Your choice. Definitely do this for over-anti-melee hex areas or hella enchant strip areas or over ANYTHING area. Cept blind, you're covered with this setup.
*if you need rezzes (don't have Scrolls), make sure to make room for them.

Usage:
*Rt/W: 1-2-8, use skills when needed. Mash that space bar.
*P/Rt: 2. Use 8 when blinded and not before. Use 1 when you should (guess.). Roll keyboard over keys 4-7 and watch epic stuff happen.
*First 2 D/Ne's: 1-2-3-4-5-5-5-5-5, keep 7 up at all times, use 6 for epic heal, idk whatever you use for optional.
*Last 2 D/Ne's: same as above, or replace with any 2 other builds. Huzzah!
*Use Scrolls when someone dies.

X Joey X · May 02, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

For the "wars" won't it be better to use a sword or an axe to get the bonus damage more often. Also sy! is better on the paras rather than the wars imo

Adamo · May 02, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

The Paragons have no adrenaline skills. Why use Focused Anger?

DarkNecrid · May 02, 2008, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamo

The Paragons have no adrenaline skills. Why use Focused Anger?

lol oops, I put the wrong skill in there.

I'll fix it in a sec.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Joey X

For the "wars" won't it be better to use a sword or an axe to get the bonus damage more often. Also sy! is better on the paras rather than the wars imo

Hammers are bigger damage, and it's not that much of a difference especially with OoP and DF. PvE mobs have higher armor, and so bigger damage is more important, over time the hammer will do more damage.

Also, SY! will work just fine on the wars. Yeah, it fuels the Paras more, but the paras are just fine for e-management anyways thanks to Anthem of Flame. Its more of a personal choice in this build. By putting SY! on the Wars, you let the Paras deal out more damage (which is why the Allegiance PvE skill is there, for the massive + dmg.)

inf3st · May 02, 2008, 02:53 PM // 14:53

The first one looks insanely cool lol

Richardt · May 02, 2008, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Why 4 healers in the second set? I would assume 2, maybe 3 tops would be needed.

And yeah I would move SY! onto one of the paras.

DarkNecrid · May 02, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

Why 4 healers in the second set? I would assume 2, maybe 3 tops would be needed.

And yeah I would move SY! onto one of the paras.

Because of the way their heal works, and the # of enchants, its more of a safety precaution. You're right, if you are really skilled and can properly keep 2 of them to where their party heal heals everyone at the same time and not miss 1-2 people, then by all means take 2, and add 1 more war, and 1 more para, or 2 paras, or 2 wars. Your choice. (my favorite: remove 2 healers, add 2 Whirling Attack Wars (replace SY! with WH.) it rules.

EDIT:
Just noticed they fixed Asuran Scan awhile ago, so I've replaced it with Technobabble. But feel free to replace it with any other Asuran skill, I recommend the degen ward one as well.

The Meth · May 02, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

First is an interesting gimmick. The second is kind of meh, why are you using hammers? Slow attack rate = bad use of + bonus damage buffs. Even still, with an 8 person group with maxed title ranks you could do better...

DarkNecrid · May 02, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

First is an interesting gimmick. The second is kind of meh, why are you using hammers? Slow attack rate = bad use of + bonus damage buffs. Even still, with an 8 person group with maxed title ranks you could do better...

because hammers aren't that slow when under an IAS? because hammers are the only weapon type with a non-elite + adrenaline skill that is decent?

its not SUPER AMAZING but its alright.

also yeah the first team rules. It's very fun to like watch 15 Assassins appear out of thin air and rape Shiro together.

and if you get hurt there's always SHADOWSTEP HEAL SPIKE. <_<

Cathode_Reborn · May 02, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

The builds seemed flawed in many random ways.

Too much copy/paste action. A more detailed/fine-tuned team build would have much more utility. There's also 0 hex/condition removal.

DarkNecrid · May 02, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

because it doesn't need it.

Coloneh · May 02, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

because it doesn't need it.

i can see no condition removal as conditions can be powered through, but no hex removal? veeeerrrryyyy shalow understanding of game mechanics

The Meth · May 02, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

because hammers aren't that slow when under an IAS? because hammers are the only weapon type with a non-elite + adrenaline skill that is decent?
its not SUPER AMAZING but its alright.
also yeah the first team rules. It's very fun to like watch 15 Assassins appear out of thin air and rape Shiro together.
and if you get hurt there's always SHADOWSTEP HEAL SPIKE. <_<

Hammers have about a 2 dps advantage over an axe or sword. That is with no other factors. But then, your IAS is decreasing this advantage by 25%, and then with the huge + damage buffs that are armor ignoring the sword and axe get a massive damage advantage over hammer, almost a 20 DPS boost just because they attack about 25% faster. Factor in the fact that you also trigger more knockdowns and have more adrenaline to fuel SY!

Steelfang Slash will synergize great with both GDW and For Great Justice, charging it self again, which easily beats a mokele's once every 20 seconds.

Why you seem to like dervish healer's so much is another mystery to me. Your only effective heal is mystic healing, which is basically rolling the dice with who gets healed.

Its a decent build, but not well thought out. It shows that just about any build can be decent if you put enough pve skills into it.

EDIT: No condition removal or hex removal? Epic Lulz.

DarkNecrid · May 03, 2008, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Hammers have about a 2 dps advantage over an axe or sword. That is with no other factors. But then, your IAS is decreasing this advantage by 25%, and then with the huge + damage buffs that are armor ignoring the sword and axe get a massive damage advantage over hammer, almost a 20 DPS boost just because they attack about 25% faster. Factor in the fact that you also trigger more knockdowns and have more adrenaline to fuel SY!

Steelfang Slash will synergize great with both GDW and For Great Justice, charging it self again, which easily beats a mokele's once every 20 seconds.

i like hammers more and the damage difference doesn't matter that much (its pve)

Quote:

Why you seem to like dervish healer's so much is another mystery to me. Your only effective heal is mystic healing, which is basically rolling the dice with who gets healed.

Its a decent build, but not well thought out. It shows that just about any build can be decent if you put enough pve skills into it.

EDIT: No condition removal or hex removal? Epic Lulz.

Orders Dervishes are amazing.

You do not need condition or hex removal. You will never die.

edit: shallow understanding of mechanics? lol

i just weapon swap and kite for the fun of it i guess

Coloneh · May 03, 2008, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

You do not need condition or hex removal. You will never die.

fail.

hexes > you

Racthoh · May 03, 2008, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Double superior runes, four healers, hammers with no KD, paragons with no hard res? Seriously?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

one of those warrior's strongest attacks will do ~141 damage (++ damage if it crits), and thanks to Flurry, will do ~140 damage 3 times in the time an Ursan does 150. woo.

Blind, Faintheartedness, Blurred Vision, Aegis, Guardian, Pensive Guardian, Shadow of Fear, Well of Darkness, Riposte, Shield Stance, every other skill in the game that Ursan Strike is not affected by. In any situation where there is 0 physical shutdown I can think of many builds that would produce far more damage than your hammer bar with no KDs; the only reason to use a hammer. Not to mention that those builds would have other characters who can actually remove the stuff that shuts this build down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

i like hammers more and the damage difference doesn't matter that much (its pve)

So? It's a bad idea when you're not utilizing what a weapon does best. Let's also ignore losing shield bonuses like reduced blind duration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Orders Dervishes are amazing.

When there is one of them. What good does having four of them do besides healing which a monk is much much much much better at. Especially when your frontliners have 60 AL, a superior rune, and no shield. Order Dervishes must be amazing though for sure since that frontline can build SY before they die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

You do not need condition or hex removal. You will never die.

I could bring 4 healers and never die too, or 8. There are times when I could use 0 monks and never die too, that doesn't make it a good idea. I've cleared areas after someone disconnects, that doesn't mean I'm going to go into that area with 7 people all the time. Your warriors will miss when blinded, they will attack slower when hexed, they will not SY when they cannot build adrenaline because you do not value those tools for some reason. Almost everyone has -150 health, hammers for their auto-attack damage with Flurry which kills the whole point of using the weapon with the highest base damage.

I won't even comment on the first build since this makes no sense:

Quote:

*more than a 50% chance to half cast time all spells, giving your healers AAMAZING healing ability with Mindbender.

You've recommended the use of Lightbringer's Gaze for some reason when you wouldn't always be fighting in Elona, and you don't have any resses.

The Meth · May 03, 2008, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

You do not need condition or hex removal. You will never die.

If your front line gets blinded AT ALL, even for a few seconds, you end up with a 60 armored ritualist in the middle of mobs. And you have no prot. And your healing is based upon luck. Same with any other hex that affects physicals. The prime way of disabling physicals is through hexes and conditions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

i like hammers more and the damage difference doesn't matter that much (its pve)

If the damage difference didn't matter, why did you just take your time to explain why it does more damage then UB? Damage obviously matters to you, so why are you using a build that does less? Swords or Axes will give far more DPS then hammers, its a fact.

DarkNecrid · May 03, 2008, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

fail.

hexes > you

most hexes in most general areas aren't enough to kill anyone.

most conditions that cripple this build aren't wide spread enough in most general areas.

it's called adapting/changing the build if used in areas with an over abudance of either (hellor Shards of Orr, DoA, etc.)

NO WAI A PVP PLAYER WHO KNOWS HOW TO ADAPT AND CHANGE HIS BUILD YOU DONT SAY???

Quote:

Double superior runes, four healers, hammers with no KD, paragons with no hard res? Seriously?

let me know when double sup runes matter when your entire team has 160-200 armor, (which in of itself is a damage multipler of ~0.25) + 35% damage resistance, and such.

Great Dwarf Weapon. Read it.

hard resses suck. The only reason I even put Rez Sig on those builds is because I didn't care to fill in an 8th slot. The builds are meant for general areas and to be adapted for specific encounters like......you know....every PvE build out there.

you don't even need the rezzes, at least I don't. I have like 60 scrolls of res.

Quote:

Blind, Faintheartedness, Blurred Vision, Aegis, Guardian, Pensive Guardian, Shadow of Fear, Well of Darkness, Riposte, Shield Stance, every other skill in the game that Ursan Strike is not affected by. In any situation where there is 0 physical shutdown I can think of many builds that would produce far more damage than your hammer bar with no KDs; the only reason to use a hammer. Not to mention that those builds would have other characters who can actually remove the stuff that shuts this build down.

Are only wide spread enough to lightly stop the build.

it's not perfect yeah but when did i advertise 2 PERFECT PvE team builds. the builds are good enough to beat PvE, and that is all that matters. There is no real reason to apply a PvP build mentality to PvE, since tons of builds are good enough. Applying such a mentality to PvE leads to mesmers never getting used because "they suck" (hint: they don't), and everyone running Ursan (hint: it does).

Quote:

So? It's a bad idea when you're not utilizing what a weapon does best. Let's also ignore losing shield bonuses like reduced blind duration.

so....use a sword or axe then?? it's just a general setup.

Quote:

When there is one of them. What good does having four of them do besides healing which a monk is much much much much better at. Especially when your frontliners have 60 AL, a superior rune, and no shield. Order Dervishes must be amazing though for sure since that frontline can build SY before they die.

except the frontliners will have way more than 60AL, 35% damage resistance, and such.

Quote:

hammers for their auto-attack damage with Flurry which kills the whole point of using the weapon with the highest base damage.

who cares dude you have +60 some bonus damage, which flurry doesn't stop.

Quote:

You've recommended the use of Lightbringer's Gaze for some reason when you wouldn't always be fighting in Elona, and you don't have any resses.

because i dont need resses and maybe you could use something else instead of Lightbringer's if you're elsewhere.

BUT DARKNECRID you say

THATS CRAZY

i know.

it's called changing the builds for the situation.

it's what PvE is about.

thinking both builds are gospel and meant for everywhere and shouldn't be changed for the situation is retarded.

like wise, me listing a variant of both builds for every single in the game, is retarded.

they are general builds.

Washi · May 03, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

hard resses suck.

[skill]Signet of Return[/skill]

You do not understand that game, sorry.
Your teams are maybe "fun" but they will fail in hard areas (like DOA or HM dungeons)

DarkNecrid · May 03, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

[skill]Signet of Return[/skill]

You do not understand that game, sorry.
Your teams are maybe "fun" but they will fail in hard areas (like DOA or HM dungeons)

Signet of Return sucks.

5 seconds is more than enough to be interrupted, it's a signet so HCT doesn't proc with it, and hard rezzes still suck.

Hard Areas aren't even hard. If anyone is dying, something is wrong. If anyone died, use a Scroll of Res. It's called vent. SCROLL OF RESSING MAKE SURE TO DWAYNAS TOUCH works just fine, k?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

these are kinda original gimmicks, but the OP obviously does not understand game mechanics at all.

Do you weapon swap, let alone the vast benefits of doing so?

Do you chiizu dance as a melee class?

Do you understand the complex mathematical algorithms behind damage calculation?

Do you quarter knock as a warrior?

No...?

k.

These do just fine for PvE. You do not need top-of-the-line stuff to win at PvE.

Yea, I don't understand game mechanics, I just weapon swap for all my correct spells with all 4 weapon sets as a Monk, make sure to continuously chiizu-dance whenever I can (even in PvE, pretty sure my space bar and mouse are gonna die soon), make sure to quarter-knock (which makes Touch of Guile seem pretty useless), and I know the damage calculation equation by heart. I know more about the mechanics from a number to number and percentile basis than you think.

I think you missed the part where this is a build, and it's a PvE build none-the-less. You're supposed to change them for the environment you are going in, failure to do so makes you a bad player. Yes, the build CAN'T DO EVERYTHING like Ursan can, but I think some people have forgotten what changing your build is. If you need a little bit of something for anti-melee hex/blind areas, then take it. The fact that there is 4 Healers leaves at least 2 spots that could be changed for anything.

god.